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Saturday, March 25, 2006

Immigration Derailing Democrats?

The immigration issue may be a thorn in the side during the 2006 elections, but it may not be the party folks think.

While lots of folks are gloating about the GOP's seemingly unending arrary of suggestions on the policy, and lack of unity, they are ignoring the Democrats. That lack of unity is actually as big a problem for the Democrats as it is the GOP.

While Nancy Pelosi loves to run around talking about the GOP being lockstep behind George Bush, and giving him everything he wants, the truth is they don't. Immigration is the second big example of that, after Social Security reform.

The second part of their immigration problem is the perception that while the GOP may be confused about the issue and how to handle it, the Democrats don't want to do anything.

Hillary Clinton's statements have provided fodder for a lot of conservatives, but shows why so many folks laugh at the 'looney left'.

(from the Washington Post) She declared that Republican efforts to criminalize undocumented workers and their support networks "would literally criminalize the good Samaritan and probably even Jesus himself."
Excuse me Senator, while you prefer the term "undocumented" the truth is they are also known as "illegal aliens", what they've done is already criminal. What the GOP is actually talking about, though in many voices, is actually enforcing those laws.

Zogby found that 62% of American's they polled want tougher immigration laws, which is directly the opposite of the Democrats in congress of late.

So, while pandering for the Hispanic vote, which is what they appear to be doing, might work on a limited basis, it could cost them other votes. One of the biggest voter blocks to endorse immigration reform are low income African Americans, who think they are in direct competition for jobs with those groups.

So, while the GOP seems slightly disjointed on the "how" question of dealing with illegal immigration, the Democrats seem to be in lockstep of the idea of "not" dealing with it in a manner the public would like.

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Blogger Patrick Joubert Conlon said...

Legal Hispanic immigrants dislike the illegals too.

11:18 AM  
Blogger Gun-Toting Liberal said...

Before this is all over with, I expect both the Dems and the Reps to be divided at times. If the Dems or the Reps play too much "poly-tix" with this issue, it will cost them dearly due to the fact that the polls show this is definitely not a "partisan" issue with the American People.

Could be interesting! I'm just glad this issue finally being addressed on the Hill where it should have been years ago.

12:47 PM  
Blogger Crazy Politico said...

Patrick, that's a true statement.

GTL- I agree, most folks don't see this as a GOP/Dem thing, they see it as an americans want secure borders issue.

Now, there is the extreme on each wing, the "don't criminalize illegals" on the left and "Stop all immigration" on the right, but the common sense from the middle does have to prevail on this issue.

4:19 PM  
Blogger Eric D Lingen said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:34 PM  
Blogger ablur said...

I keep hearing Americans will have to pay higher prices for goods and services if we lost these workers. I keep hearing that they only do the jobs Americans wont do.

Has anyone bothered to figure out what these cheep laborers are costing us.
1. It costs us about $10,000 per child to educate the illegal children of these workers. The Supreme Court has already ruled that we must educate them.
2. The hospitals are treated as their personal health care system. We the people are then stuck wit the tab by way of government intervention and higher medical costs. This results in higher insurance costs and ultimately forces some Americans to stop having it because of these increased costs. Further we see many Health supplying companies and hospitals in the south are going bankrupt for this reason alone.
3. The southern US states are suffering from a human wave of destruction as illegal entrants meet their needs on their dime. Cars stolen, cloths stolen, food stolen, vandilism....the list is long.
4. Social service such as welfare and food stamps have a don't ask policy that taps into the earnings of the rest of America.
5. The suppressed labor market lowers the standard of living for all Americans

With just that list, I could add more, both issues I started with would go away. If we could stop paying all the hemorrhaging costs of the illegals the increase in wages may actually result in lower prices.
There are no jobs that Americans won't do. They simply need to be compensated at a reasonable level. Watch "Dirty Jobs" on the Discovery Channel if you don't believe this. If there truly is a labor shortage in America we could raise our legal immigration numbers. We don't need to have illegals forced down our throats.

8:38 PM  
Blogger ablur said...

Well the person I was responding too took their post and went home. It's amazing how reality frightens some people.

10:01 PM  
Blogger Tired Immigrant said...

Though it may seem counter-intuitive, open immigration is the only way to secure the border.

Today, many american citizens ignore the undocumented status of aliens, becase they assume that those aliens are honest folk who simply want to make a living. If the US lets such folk in legally, with proper documentation, people would know that any other undocumented people are not kosher.

Imagine that no honest person would want to cross into the US illegally. As a consequence, citizens would readily report the few crooks who do. The only way to make the border safe is to allow for a large amounts of well-controlled, legal immigration. The only other way I can think of is to make Mexico the 51st state, and then patrol their -- much shorter -- southern border.

To my mind, the main change should be to grant amnesty to the 11 million Mexicans who are here, and then allow about 2 million to come over legally every year. The consequence of this will be to make the U.S. a safer place.

(Read my story: http://tired-immigrant.blogspot.com/)

10:20 PM  
Blogger Gayle said...

I don't know what the solution is, but I do know their needs to be a solution. It's pretty close to home for me, as I live in Central Texas.

Patrick is right on when he says that many legal Hispanic immigrants are against illegal immigration as well. I know this for a fact, because I know many legal Hispanics.

As for the left, they are simply playing politics, as usual. That's all they do these days: "Play."

11:13 PM  
Blogger Crazy Politico said...

Ablur, on point 1, educational costs. with the exception of the illegals who live in tents, they actally do contribute to that cost. How? Well most rent houses, which pay property taxes, which cover in many states 80%+ of the cost of education. They also pay sales tax,etc which covers it in others states. While they don't cover the total cost as a legal alien or citizen does, they also cover more than the 0% you infer.

On point 2, many of our own citizens do the same thing if they aren't covered by health insurance or a state program. In fact if the 43 million uninsured is a correct number, they do it 4 times as often as illegals.

On point 3, Detroit and Washington are suffering the same problems, but 95% caused by legal US residents. What should we do with them?

Point 4 I agree with you on. Social services/welfare should be denied to illegals.

Point 5, the flip side arguement is that the lower cost of labor provided be illegals increases the standard of living by keeping costs down. They provide an anti-inflationary labor pool.

Now, if we could find a way to force folks in high unemployment areas like Detroit to move to Northern Virginia, with it's 1.3% unemployment rate, that would be great. But so far I haven't heard of a legal way to do it.

Tired Immigrant- Some sort of policy has to be worked out. I'd like to see congress do something that makes real sense, not good sound bites. The truth lies somewhere between your view and Ablurs.

6:21 AM  
Blogger ablur said...

on 1 -- since they live in a much higher population density rental housing that exceeds the system our taxes are based on they fail to fully support the property tax system and thus education.
on 2 -- Removing this drain on the health care system would reduce its cost and make health insurance more affordable. Thus reducing the uninsured and once again reducing the burden on the system.
On 3 -- This is a false argument. All society is burdened with those who feel the need to take from others. We don't need to import those with this desire we have enough of our own.
On 4 -- We need methods to restore these people not adopt more into the system to keep it rolling. Our current system is designed to perpetuate itself.
On 5 -- These reductions for cheap labor are false. The other costs by this burden are dragging on society.

Should we point to the 5% of those in prison are illegal at $23,000 annual average.
What about the increased cost of police and court activity for those who aren't held. Let's not use the "We have plenty of our own" argument again. That is why we have police and such.
I could go on and on.

I am all for legal immigration. If we need more workers, I am fine with upping the quotas, but how will we ever know as long as this continues.

8:54 AM  
Blogger shoprat said...

I am not worried about the Hispanics who come looking for work and are willing to obey our laws, but we do need to control them and know who and where they are. (Which means they would have to register at the border and let authorities know who they are, where they are going and what they will be doing there. If they don't want to register, it means they don't want to obey our laws are unwelcome.)

I am more concerned about the riff-raff that is coming across the border with them and how to sort them out. If we cannot sort them out then, for the safety of all Americans, we must not allow any of them in. Furthermore, non-citizens must not be eligible for state-sponsered welfare of any form (though Churches and private charities may help them.)

9:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Karl Rove, Hands Off Hillary

9:36 PM  
Blogger Christian Pundits said...

Considering their stand on abortion and homosexuality, that liberal Democrats, especially Hillary Clinton, would suddenly start spouting a "What Would Jesus Do?" policy would almost be laughable - if it didn't show the level of hypocrisy that liberals are capable of!

As for the immigration issue, I'm not advocating that all immigrants be returned to their country of origin, ONLY the illegals.

I don't believe for a second the administration's stand that immigrants perform the jobs that American's won't.

Bull-Dung! The bottom line is that immigrants get the jobs because the companies hiring them can get away with paying them lesser wages than an America worker would accept.

Not to mention that most companies are afraid that if they hire an American over an immigrant they'll have groups like the ACLU taking them to court for violating the immigrant's "rights".

And in case you're wondering why that "Made in America" product you buy breaks or falls apart in no time - I offer this story.

My husband used to work in a large Auto-Electric Rebuilding company in South Florida. Out of the 90 employees at this company 75 of them were Haitian or Mexican immigrants. Many of whom had to bring a friend or family member with them when applying for the job so they could communicate with the English speaking management!

One time my husband noticed that one of the Haitian workers was assembling a starter incorrectly. When my husband tried to point out what the worker was doing wrong the Haitian's exact words to him were, "I not care if it work right, I just here for paycheck."

My husband then reported this incident to the management and tried to point out to them that they were losing business by having products returned due to shoddy workmanship.

Their response was that even if they lost some business they still came out ahead because they were able to pay the Haitian cheaper wages than they would an english-speaking worker.

BTW, I've linked to this post at Christian Pundits

7:13 AM  
Blogger Christian Pundits said...

Thought you all might be interested in this little tidbit.

Shahzad Qureshi, a chauffeur for Bill Clinton has been found to be a wanted man.

Qureshi, was in one of three cars awaiting Clinton at Newark Airport last week when a Port Authority policeman happened to check license plate numbers.

The computer came back showing that Qureshi, a Pakistani national, had skipped a residency-status hearing in 2000, and a deportation order had been issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the New York Post reported.


7:37 PM  

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