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Thursday, July 06, 2006

Normal Obstructionists

As usual, when it comes to dealing with North Korea, China and Russia have blocked anything the UN Security Council would like to do in the form of economic sanctions.

Lest we forget, we've been down this road before. In the 1990's Bill Clinton secured Kim Il Jong's assurances he'd stopped working on his nuclear program. In return we sent light water reactors, home heating oil, and bunches of food.

In the end, the light water reactors weren't finished, and while the army and government buildings were heated, and had food in the cafeteria, millions of North Koreans still starved to death and froze. And the work on the nuke program didn't stop.

Now, for some reason, which is easy to figure out, Russia and China want to try this approach again. The reason is they make a ton of money from North Korea, economic sanctions would hurt them, too. So, instead of being concerned about North Korea's program, they are blocking action based on self interests, not world interests.

Technorati Tags: , Nuclear Weapons, Russia,


Blogger Bukko_in_Australia said...

Ummm, how do they make a ton of money from North Korea? Last I heard, North Koreans were eating grass to keep from starving to death. Unless they're selling their kidneys, of which there's an ample supply from executed-upon-demand Chinese prisoners, I don't see North Korea as being a cash cow.

What it IS is a stalking horse, a bugaboo that China uses to frighten the U.S. when it doesn't want to be confrontational by frightening the U.S. directly. That would be the same China that supplies Wal-Mart with all the cheap plastic crap it sells. The same China that Republican fatcats make profitable deals with to bust manufacturers that have unionised workforces -- gotta take those jobs away from Americans that might demand decent wages!

Fits right in with the bastards in the weapons trade, who get billions for building anti-missile defences that don't work worth a damn. They don't care -- they get paid anyway, and skim their $10 million annual salaries off the top. Do you wonder, for even a single second, why the U.S. didn't have its Star Wars missile shield aimed at this Taepodong 2? Because it would have been revealed as the sham it was.

Yet flag-wavers such as you are quivering in fear, ready to follow the wishes of the leaders who are bilking you, whilst North Koreans starve, Chinese autocrats chuckle, and the merchants of war grow richer on your national debit dollars. You're being played for a sucker by all sides. Keep waving that flag -- all the better to shield your eyes from the truth.

9:03 AM  
Blogger ablur said...

What we have is a small puppet country of China trying to look bigger then it is by calling out the biggest kid on the block in hopes that he wont show and that they will ultimately look bigger for it. We have a history of not showing up for a fight. The worst we do is lob a couple of missiles at some useless point on the map and go home. Looks like they are getting what they bargained for so far. China pushes this as a way of dealing with the embarrassment of Taiwan. If they can make us look stupider then there little problem only gets smaller in the world eye.
Russia has been their "friends" for years and can't afford any further reduction in foreign support even if it is only verbal.

10:06 AM  
Blogger Tim said...

Bukko- I wholeheartedly agree.

China could put a stop to this very quickly if they wanted to. Kim is their lapdog. This is a way to cow the USA by proxy. CP-have a look at Sun Tzu's "Art of War". You don't attack an enemy where he is strong.
The hand behind all of this is China.
Really we have no concern about N. Korea. They will not touch the USA with a nuclear bomb. Nor will they blow up S.Korea.
They want to take that intact.
If you are affraid of N. Korea and Iran having a bomb, why is it okay that we have them?
"do as I say, not as I do" will get us nowhere.
As far as them cheating on developing nukes, that did W. expect them to do? Clinton was starting to get them to relax a little, opening diplomatic relations, and he comes in and tells them to go F@#$ themselves because we don't like them.

10:21 AM  
Blogger ablur said...

If you are affraid of N. Korea and Iran having a bomb, why is it okay that we have them?
"do as I say, not as I do" will get us nowhere.

Do you somehow imagine we can totally erase the past? Has the equation changed and now two wrongs do make a right?

Get real folks. We have them and we pay billions to keep them safe and maintain them. Do these poor and starving nations have what it takes to maintain a nuclear arsenal? They are an accident waiting to happen. They are the most likely to sell off a nuclear weapon for other gains. They have needs that far surpass nuclear. These are the perfect nations to sell without asking any questions of the buyer. This is a world problem where only those who are blind don't see that this is a means to get alot either through blackmail or black market.

12:57 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

Albur- We can't do a damn thing about it. I wish we could, but there is nothing that we can do. If they want it, they are going to get it and UN sanctions will not stop them. Going to war would be a disaster. The N. Koreans could devastate the whole northern third of S. Korea with artillery before we have time to say "what was that noise?" and there is NO WAY China will let us touch them without going to war with them and I don't think even CP is crazy enough to wish for that. As far as Iran wanting a bomb, wouldn't you if the USA was actively talking regime change? Why aren't all of you screaming about Pakistan? Is it okay for that Islamofascist country to have nukes because they are our ally this week(some ally, they let Bin Laden live there and utter some crap about not having control of the "tribal areas")? Pakistan probably sold N. Korea the technology to make their bombs. India also has nukes and is in Iran's niehborhood. Oh yeah, let's not leave out Israel. You guys are seeing this situation with one eye closed. A bunch of saber rattling will just escalate the situation. You get more flys with honey than vinegar, but we seem to have run out of honey in this country.

7:53 PM  
Blogger Crazy Politico said...

Oddly folks, I think China would love for us to get in a war with North Korea, but not for the reasons you think. And I don't think they'd get directly involved. If, as Bukko has stated, NK isn't much economic help to China, it would be a disaster for them to get involved.

After the first Gulf War Russia, even with a semi-crippled economy, started doing a lot of military upgrades, because they saw how inferior their equipment was.

China has not had a lot of things tested in combat that they'd like to see tested. North Korea has a number of those weapons, and would probably get a few more, if it looked seriously like the military option was going to be used.

China, while evidently some feel holds the upper economic hand doesn't to the extent you believe. While it would cause a pinch here on some things, the fact is China can't afford to lose it's "Most Favored Nation" status (Thanks Bill) or the US investment in their economy. We are, by about 10 times, the largest offshore investor there. Having us freeze money to them would be a much bigger problem on their end of it. Their people are just getting used to a raised standard of living, and to have it collapse because of Korea would probably be the end of their current form of government.

9:59 PM  
Blogger Tim said...

You are missing the point, CP. They use NK as a proxy to do all of the things against us precisely because we gave them MFN status. They can tweak our noses without being seen to do so. They do not want a war to "test their hardware". They want to take all of Korea intact and integrate it into their regional economy.

9:46 AM  
Blogger ablur said...

I think CP may have a good point there.

No Tim we can't fully keep them from them, but as children they can be redirected with candy and other things.
I think you give China way to much credit. China is a struggling future super power that is growing at a rate that without our help they know they can't sustain it. Like it or not we have become interdependant with China. We have the upper hand because we don't really need all that we buy but China needs every American Dollar it can get its hands on.

CP - The point about testing the equipment in battle is fair but given the mental status of Il, I don't know if China would get a fair or accurate test.

12:06 PM  
Blogger Mahndisa S. Rigmaiden said...

07 09 06

This is scary stuff!

12:15 PM  

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