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Friday, February 10, 2006

Google Can Be So Cool

Lone Pony sent me an e-mail about a person who has been doing some trolling on her blog. She needs to be credited, she ticked the guy off so much he updated his blog for the first time since June of last year.

Evidently Junaid M. Afeef has taken slight offense to her 4 part series on Islam, and has in fact been blogging about her posts on his own blog.

So of course I went over and beat him up on his blog:
I've actually defended the idea of Islam as a religion of peace. How could it be otherwise, since it looked for it's original teachings in both the jewish and christian faiths.

The problem is, Islam has lost the war. Not with the Jews, who they originally treasured, or Christians, who's Joseph the Koran considers the most beautiful human ever. But to themselves.

The loss of that war started when the Arab nations decided against the 1947 UN charter of Isreal and Palestine in an area that was a British colony. It's continued since, with more and more radical Islamists taking over the speaking roles for the religion, and drowning out those who are voices of reason.

The religions leaders in other countries could have done themselves a favor in 1978 and denouced the method (not the action) of the overthrowing of the Shah of Iran. (He did need to go, the hostages were unnecessary).

The leaders of the religion could have found some more sympathy by denouncing the Ba'athists in Iraq and Syria's sudden conversion to "Islamic countries" when they'd ignored religion for decades.

Instead of supporting and defending Hezbollah and Hamas, leaders in many countries could have followed the Egyptian lead, denounced them, and had peace in the middle east.

Instead, they've allowed the "poor me" sect to take over, and destroy any credibility Islam had in the eyes of most of the world. The "religion of peace" is seen a a religion that condones homicide bombers, beheadings, and kidnappings of people who've come to help them, and basically barbarians.

It'll take a lot of work to undo that.
I decided to see what else I could find on the good attorney, because, as the article title says, "Google Can Be So Cool". It seems he'd like to see your guns taken away. Here is a link to his article on the subject from "The Institute for Social Policy and Understanding".

I especially like this unqualified statement:

The idea of curtailing rights in the name of homeland security does not seem implausible given the current state of civil liberties in the United States. The war on terror has already taken an enormous toll on the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments, and thus far, very few Americans have objected. In light of this precedence, it seems reasonable that scaling back or even repealing the right to bear arms would be an easy task.

Notice he gives no examples on the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th rights we've given up. I'm sure the Institute, like the ACLU, is having a hell of a time finding the actual examples of the abuses of the Patriot Act. Instead, they deal in hyperbole, hoping folks will buy into it.

I also got a kick out of this idea of his:

Even those citizens who continue to maintain such antiquated views must face the reality that the United States’ armed forces are too large and too powerful for the citizenry to make much difference. Quite frankly, the idea of the citizenry rising up against the U.S. government with their handguns and assault rifles, and facing the military with these personal arms is absurd. The Branch Davidian tragedy at Waco, Texas, was one such futile attempt.
Maybe he should give former Soviet Premier Gorbachev a quick call and find out about how helpful a large, strong military was in keeping his country together. I think he's vacationing somewhere, waiting to get back into the drivers seat.

And the use of the Davidians is funny. That wasn't an attempt to overthrow the government. Though they didn't agree with the government, they weren't trying to overthrow anything, and in fact it was the government who stormed them, not the other way around.

I've also read a few of his articles at The American Muslim and some other places, and in a number cases, like his views on religion and government (and religion in socieity) I agree with him.

But on his idea that Islam is the religion of peace, I'll disagree with him until he can convince enough of the muslim world to quit blowing things (and people) up in an effort to prove they are peaceful. Of course, they could also give other religions the reverence they are demanding from the world of their's.

I'll also disagree that we should give up our guns.

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Blogger Lone Pony said...

Thank you for your comments on this Bob. I answered him back, but I didn't do anywhere near as good a job as you did.

11:32 PM  
Blogger JunaidAfeef said...

Dear Bob "Crazy Politico":

I look forward to discussing my article on the 2nd Amendment shortly. For now I'd like to further comment on Lone Pony's posts on Islam and on your reflections on my comments regarding the same.

Islam is indeed a religion of peace. And yes, it does in fact share a great deal with the teachings of Judaism and Christianity. Your comments are to me on my blog were interesting, but they hardly helped Lone Pony.

My objection to Lone Pony's articles is that they are intellectually and factually inadequate in most instances and in one instance it is down-right offensive (but don't worry - I'm not going to riot in front of your home). I hope Lone Pony will read some of the books I've recommended to her.

Islam the religion and the political positions and failings of Muslims cannot necessarily be treated as one in the same. The Ulema (Islamic scholars) in various Muslim majority countries spout off lots of baloney. Given that they reside in repressive regimes that allow them a livelihood so long as they say the right things, I find it hard to give much weight to the "religious pronouncements" (aka fatwas) from these folks.

As you may know, Islam does not adhere to strict religious heirarchy. I say this to emphasize further that the proclamations of the Ulema in Muslim majority nations cannot be held to Muslims throughout the world.

I concur with you that the Ba'athist regimes were repulsive and that Syria is ruled by a dictator whose primary concern is to secure his power and wealth. Most Muslims would agree with you. Please remember, however, that although Egypt took the bold step of embracing peace with Israel, it is also a repressive regime.

Suicide/homicide bombings, beheadings and kidnappings are hard acts to follow. There are plenty of small heroics being carried out throughout the world by Muslims for other Muslims and people of other religions. There are many Muslims worldwide who are abhor the violence undertaken by their co-religionists (particularly because the violence is carried out in the name of, or with the purported support of, Islam). How often do you think these actions, and these opinions make headlines? Zero. Nada. Never.

Muslims have a tough row to hoe. Undoing the barbarism of some of our co-religionists will indeed take a lot of work. I do not disagree with you on that point.

My posts to Lone Pony and on my blog and in my writing and public speaking and in the manner in which I live my private life are all part of this effort.

In closing I'd like to share the following with you:

Sampling of Muslim condemnation of 9/11/01 attacks found on CAIR’s website. http://www.cairnet.net/html/911statements.html

Islamic Society of North America

In a statement issued on 2/10/06 the Islamic Society of North America stated that “A peaceful and orderly expression of indignation falls within democratic traditions, and represents a legitimate endeavor to influence political decision and debate. Resorting to violence, threats, and intimidations, on the other hand, undermines democratic principles, complicates political exchange, and closes public debate, and must therefore be rejected and opposed.” http://www.isna.net/index.php?id=35&backPID=1&tt_news=626

Council on American Islamic Relations

In a statement on 2/8/06 CAIR “condemned a plan by an Iranian newspaper to solicit cartoons denying the Nazi Holocaust.” In its statement CAIR noted that several other American Muslim organizations had joined CAIR in rejecting the use of violence in response to the defamatory caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad published in European newspapers.” http://www.cair-net.org/default.asp?Page=articleView&id=1982&theType=NR

Muslim Public Affairs Council

In a statement issued on 2/06/06 MPAC “called on American Muslims to demonstrate calm and restraint, following the deplorable violence and destruction in Beirut where protesters set a building housing the Danish Mission on fire and attacked a nearby church.” http://www.mpac.org/home_article_display.aspx?ITEM=873

The Organization of The Islamic Conference

The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC) is an inter-governmental organization grouping fifty-seven States. These States decided to pool their resources together, combine their efforts and speak with one voice to safeguard the interest and ensure the progress and well-being of their peoples and those of other Muslims in the world over. An OIC press release dated 02/06/06 stated as follows “The OIC Secretary General Prof Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu regretted and deplored the torching of Danish Mission in Beirut by the angry protestors as a reaction to the publication of defamatory caricatures of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) in the Danish and other newspapers.” http://www.oic-oci.org/

Thank you.
Junaid M. Afeef

12:33 AM  
Blogger Little Miss Chatterbox said...

Great job on this Bob!!

11:21 AM  
Blogger Crazy Politico said...

The offensive part, I assume was the line:

fanatical Muslims can be identified by a mark on their foreheads from repetitive head-wacking.

Sorry, it's not offensive, it's funny. As the radicals bang their collective heads against the wall that is the West, and Isreal, and meet with less and less succes, the bruises get bigger.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. Look at the workings of Hamas, Hezbollah, and al Qaeda, and tell me they aren't insane.

Here in the US, we make fun of crazy people, it's what we do.

Egypt is a repressive regime, you are correct, but repressive to the Egyptian people. The difference between them (and Jordan) and Syria and Iran is who ELSE they have decided to (attempt) to repress. Which is anyone who disagrees with them, or supports Isreal and it's right to exist.

The fact is there is a lot of whining, and that is the correct word, in the muslim world about being have nots. And, in search for a scapegoat they've looked past their own shortcomings to blame anyone else who's around.

The truth is the west didn't keep half of the people from Afganistan from being educated for 20 years, Muslim Clerics did, in the name of Allah and the Koran.

The west didn't stop the inflow of educated people to Iran, or Lebannon. Radical Islamic fundamentalists did, by denouncing anyone educated outside of Islam.

And now, those who have kept that majority of peaceful muslims oppressed, cut off, and outside of the world whine that it isn't fair they don't have everything an educated country does.

There's hope though, because there are more and more instances in Iraq where Shia and Sunni are putting aside their differences to drive out the al Qaeda an Hezbollah/Hamas led factions to take over their country.

I'll be interested to see how desparate the Iran, Syria, Palestine axis becomes as those in Iraq and Afghanistan realize you can have religion, and freedom at the same time. How hard will the radicals in charge work to keep that message from their people.

As for your references, I wouldn't be to flippant about tossing CAIR around as an example of "moderates". Their 12 year history is full of examples of their support of radical concepts, and groups.

As for good deads in your community going unnoticed, I agree. But mostly because that message is drown out by the other factions.

Maybe you could convince Al-Jazeera that beheadings don't make nearly as good a TV show as opening schools and clinics. Or to just quit playing the messages from Islams radical wing, as though it is the message of all Islam.

12:05 PM  
Blogger Patty said...

Very Interesting Bob,
Have you looked at the Mantra of C.A.I.R.? They are here in the United States not to be one of many relgions but to be the dominate religion. This is being fought locally by parents. "Critical Thinking" School Admin. is allowing teachers to indoctinate children. Run some searches on it. There have been law suits in Ca. over this. Its beginning to appear there will be in Oklahoma.
It would seem many public schools are teaching islam in the guise of history. Once pandora is relesed we all know what happens next.

p.s. some of C.A.I.R.'s people have been investigated/arrested I believe as having something to do with Terrorism. Just some thoughts from the middle of the road.

3:03 PM  

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